Your
work at Proteus International has been about teaching the Growing
Great Employees approach to a diverse range of clients. The book came
out in 2006, correct? Why did you decide that it was time to write
the book?
Fairly
often, as I worked with executives over the years, they would ask
me to recommend a good, thorough, practical book about managing people.
And I couldn’t find one. There were lots of theoretical books
about the importance of managing well, and I found lots of books about
little “pieces” of management – how to reward people,
or how to give performance reviews, or how to deal with people who
are difficult, etc. So I decided to write a book that would serve
as a kind of “handbook of people management”; that would
help managers understand what management is, why it’s important,
and – most important – how to do it well.
Why do you feel that it’s difficult for us, whether
managers or employees, to listen? What’s really the stumbling
block here? Is there more than one? How do you see that this can best
be overcome? I
think one of the main difficulties specific to managers in listening
is that we’re taught this idea that being a manager means being
the person with all the answers – telling people what to do.
We have to question that idea. I think it’s more useful to think
of the role of manager as “getting results with and through
others.” And what better way to do that than by truly understanding
what your employees think and feel, what they’re capable of
and what they’re afraid of; what inspires them and what confuses
them. And I know no other way to discover these things than to listen.
What do you think is really involved in truly listening?
There
are certainly actual physical and verbal skills involved, and I explore
and teach those in my book – and we teach them in the management
development seminars we conduct. But even more important are the mental
skills involved in listening. In order to listen fully, you need to
momentarily set aside your own point of view: you have to be neutral,
so you can fully hear what the other person is saying. And I think
you also need to cultivate curiosity -- the sense that the other person’s
feelings and thoughts are interesting and that you want to hear them.
Why
do you believe that curiosity-based questions are the way to go,
even in familiar terrain or when dealing with familiar people or
issues?
Because
otherwise we ask questions to which we think we know the answer
already, or we ask questions that just focus on getting a particular
piece of information that WE think is relevant. When we only ask
questions like this, it significantly reduces the likelihood of
getting new information, or of building a deeper relationship with
the other person.
In
your book, you talk about core competencies and how one of the most
challenging aspects of creating core competencies is defining them
behaviourally. Can you elaborate on this?
Yes.
Let’s say that the senior managers of a company decide that
one critical element of their success as an organisation is for
all staff members to team well. So they select “team player”
as one of their core competencies. Fair enough…but what does
that really mean? What does it look like? If you asked each member
of the management group that question, they might come up with completely
different answers. One person might say being a team player means
“always sharing credit for successes.” Another might
say it means, “being willing to work extra hours to help a
team member.” Yet a third might insist that the most important
aspect of being a team player is “not complaining.”
Very different understandings. So, agreeing on behavioral definitions
for core competencies assures that everyone is talking about, managing
to and being held accountable for the same things.
How
do you see core competencies – as a set of behaviours or values
or something else?
I
see them as attributes. When an organisation establishes core competencies,
they’re saying these are characteristics or attributes we
require of every person in our organisation. Then, when you create
“behavioral markers” for those attributes (as we discussed
in the previous question), you’re making it clear to everyone
how these attributes “show up” – how you expect
them to be demonstrated in real life.
If
core competencies can be seen as behavioural attributes, to what
extent can we change certain behaviour that doesnt fit in with the
culture of the organisation?
It’s
a great question, and an important one. The short answer is: not
that much. That’s why core competencies are so important –
if you have them, you can use them as a screen for hiring. I can’t
tell you how many times I’ve seen smart, capable people fail
in organisations simply because they didn’t have the implicit
core competencies required in that organisation. I’ll give
you an example. Many years ago, I was working with an executive
who had recently been hired to work in a company that didn’t
have clearly-stated core competencies. Though her skills were a
good fit for the job, and she was intelligent and well-intended,
she failed miserably and was asked to leave after less than a year.
Why? The organisation’s unstated core competencies included
– from my observation – playfulness and risk-taking,
combined with a high degree of collaboration. This executive was
rigorous, planful, independent and serious. If the core competencies
had been explicit, she never would have been hired. In my experience,
when people say someone “isn’t a good fit for the culture,”
this is what they mean: this person’s personal attributes
aren’t lined up with our implicit core competencies.
What
is the real value of a job description beyond the interview process?
It’s
a map for success. A good job description says: if you use these
attributes to achieve these results and create productive relationships
with these people – you’ll succeed. It lets the employee
know exactly what’s expected, and it gives the manager a stake
in the ground for accountability and further development.
When
looking for great employees at the recruitment stage, should one
focus on core attributes, competencies you need, behaviour or character?
Which should be prioritised? What do you look for?
Yes!
All of the above. You’re looking for someone who will be a
good fit for the culture of the organisation, who has the skills
to do the job, and who is a trustworthy and ethical human being.
I think all three are essential for a truly good “hire.”
In your opinion, what do you see as
the primary purpose of the interview process? What do you think
is a good way to interview someone, to elicit true responses, to
really get a feel for who that person is?
The
primary purpose of interviewing is to ascertain whether the candidate
is and has the things I mention in the previous question. In Growing
Great Employees I teach scenario-based interviewing as an effective
way to do that. Most interviewers either talk way too much, or ask
questions with obvious right answers – both of which make
it hard to learn anything useful about the candidate. For instance,
a non-scenario-based interviewer might ask something like, “Are
you a self-motivated person?” (An all-too-common interview
question, to which the completely obvious ‘right’ answer
is some version of, “yes I am”). In scenario-based interviewing,
you verbally set up a scenario, then ask the person how he or she
would behave in that situation So, in the situation above, the interviewer
might say, “The person in this position wouldn’t get
a lot of direction. The overall job would be clear, but the manager
is off-site and wouldn’t be assigning tasks on a day-to-day
basis. How would you work to be successful in that situation?”
You would be much more likely to get answers to that question that
would tell you whether and to what extent the person was self-motivated,
that is, how they would achieve results without step-by-step oversight.
In
your blog, http://thesimplestthing.typepad.com/erikas_blog, you
talked about the difference between knowing, knowing how and doing.
How do you see this difference in the context of developing core
competencies and effective listening?
“Knowing”
means having an intellectual understanding of something –
for example, being able to define core competencies and describe
their purpose in an organisation, or to be able to say what good
listening accomplishes, and why that’s important. “Knowing
how” means actually having the skills and capabilities necessary
to do something. For instance, actually being able to listen well
– attending, inviting, questioning and restating. “Doing”
means just that – implementing your knowledge and know-how
to get results. People often assume that if someone “knows”
something, they will automatically know how to do it, and then that
they’ll do it. Of course, that’s not so (and it’s
why so many people go to training programmes where they “learn”
things and there’s no behaviour change as a result!). When
someone knows something, knows how to do it, and – this is
critical – believes that it’s important to them and
beneficial for them – they’ll do it. That, for example,
is when managers start listening: when they know what listening
is and does, they know how to listen, and they believe that it will
benefit them to listen. 
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For almost 20 years, Erika Andersen and her
colleagues at Proteus International have been supporting such diverse
clients as Comcast, Rockwell Automation, MTV Networks, MillerCoors,
NBC Universal and the Union Square Hospitality Group to clarify
and then move toward the future they envision for themselves and
their organisations.
For
more information about Erika’s book, please visit www.growinggreatemployees.com.
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