HRM : Why do you see that BI is a great tool for recruiting, David?
David : It depends on a couple things. You need an honest understanding of the behaviours of your organisation. Behavioural interviewing won't help you otherwise, if you don't know what you're looking for. With the traditional interview, the reality is that you don't know your destination, so in effect, anything will do. The person will ask ridiculous questions such as, do you like working with people? Well, of course! Or questions like, where do you see yourself in five years? Um, I don't know. These interviewers are asking questions that aren't necessarily relevant since these questions aren't about the job. You're getting useless information. Further, people asking traditional questions focus on skill and knowledge. It's good for when you're starting out on the job but it's certainly not enough to carry on. They carry on because of their values and their commitment. So, they're being hired for all the wrong reasons. They're hired because they made a good impression but in reality they weren't people who got along with other people. Their results are really dependent on others joining them to be successful because no one works in a vacuum. And all of this is backed up by enough hard data which shows that traditional recruiting methods only yield some 19% of the information needed, as compared to behavioural interviewing which can yield 75%.

HRM : What have you seen, in your line of work, as some of the failures of the traditional hiring and interviewing process?
David : One failure is that people don't know what they're looking for. The general expression is 'I'll know it when I see it' which is based on gut reaction, not on fact. Or 'I'm hiring because they fit a profile of what I'm looking for'. So they answer the questions the way you want them to, they look like you, they talk like you. They validate your own existence. You have got to, before the interview starts, determine what you are looking for and then, ask questions based on that. Secondly, people sometimes hire based on a future job. This isn't fair. You're thinking that you don't need them to do a good job now but perhaps in the future. That's simply not good enough. They have got to fit a job today. You should only hire for what the job requires and not beyond it. And then there's all that stuff that is prejudicial information like their age, gender, sexual inclination etc. In the US, you cannot put any personal data on your application or your picture even. All these things including religious preference is prejudicial information. It leads to hiring in your own image and it leads to mistakes. You need to hire based on who can do the job well for you. Things like "If you were a vegetable, what vegetable would you be?" - its just about knowing the right answer. It's the difference between what you know to do and what you will do. It's about what the person will actually do for me, not what they say they will do. It's nice to know but it doesn't help in the interview.

HRM : What would you say puts the best case forward for the use of behavioural interviewing in the hiring process?
David : Accuracy and better business decisions. As an organisation, you're definitely going to focus on business results which can prove hard. If you hire accurately, there will be less turnover, greater acceptance and more productivity and quality. Better customer service and profitability. To let people go and replace them is a huge cost, and this doesn't even account for the time wasted on this activity and the productivity loss. Clearly, hiring the right person in the first place is a lot better than letting them go and replacing them.

HRM : What do you believe we need to look for, in the interview process?
David : Looking for a team player is not good enough. Let me explain. You've got to consider the characteristics you're after, team player is too broad a description. Get down to the nitty gritty and figure out what adds up to it. Listening, for example, is an outcome of communication. I have to do something to be perceived. Am I listening if I summarise what they said? How is listening perceived? Secondly, it's been said that past behaviour is the best predictor of future behaviour. That's not true. Not all past behaviour can be a good predictor, it needs to be frequent and recent to be a true reflection.

HRM : How do you see that we can link a person's values to his behaviours?
David : Values are demonstrated through how we act. Most organisations talk about value sets that aren't theirs. Fit is not skill and knowledge alone. A better fit is skill, knowledge, behaviour and the values of the organisation. At some places, it's just a plague on the wall and that's because no one believes it. We're looking at the underground values, the norms of behaviour that are taught. Two of the most common values are integrity and trust but neither is a value. Trust is the outcome of the right behaviour. What we value is trustworthiness, not trust. Organisations need to find people who exhibit behaviour that matches their values but most don't do so. We're talking about treating people the way they want to be treated. Compassion is a value but profit isn't. Profit is a by-product. The reality is that you can't change your corporate culture because it's a reflection of your values. Bob Nardelli, former CEO of Home Depot was a graduate of the Welch school of management and he thought he had the right way. He failed and was fired. Why? Because the Home Depot values were stronger. There were fifteen highly visible people who left GE for other companies but they're not there now. The thing is that culture evolves but slowly. It doesn't change and it trumps strategy every single time. It's much better off promoting from within where there's time to test whether someone will be successful.

HRM : What do you see as the corporate world's major challenge in this particular economic climate?
David : The major challenge for organisations is retaining their people. And this means not cutting training and development which is absolutely key. Your best people are being sought out and they will leave you if you do not look after them. It's time to stop worrying about the present only and start talking about the future in say, five or ten years. What's the plan for growth? I'm not so sure there's a recession over here in Malaysia. Recruitment is still happening and it doesn't have a direct impact on business so why act as if it does? Don't hold back. If you're worried, let them know. Don't surprise them. Communicate frequently and talk about the future.

Dr David S Cohen's background spans both the fields of corporate consulting and education. Considered a thought leader in the design of integrated human resources processes , Dr Cohen left consulting engagements with a number of Toronto based consulting firms in the area of organisational and leadership development to then start the Strategic Action Group Limited in 1991.
Dr. Cohen holds a doctorate in Education from Boston University. A frequent keynote speaker and facilitator on human resource issues for numerous professional associations, conferences and corporations, he also teaches at The Executive Leadership Division of The Schulich School of Business, York University. He is a columnist for WorkPlace News, an employment law journal.